МедияУики беседа:Retrievedfrom

I have discussed this MediaWiki message with Tim Starling and he recommended that I remove it. Allowing an external site to track visitors in this way allows that site to get details of someone's account, not the exact password, but the information needed to edit as another user. It also allows anyone with access to that site to determine the IP addresses of readers and editors, which is a violation of the Foundation's Privacy policy. Angela 07:16, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

It does not send any information that would allow to get details of someone's account. What sent details Tim Starling said that allow to edit as another user (please do answer)? As I doubt that a programmer having looked at the javascript can say this. The counter does not violate Wikimedia:Privacy policy. There is a Project page that explains all this and the community has accepted the installation with 83% (the discussion was for about 3 weeks on our Village pump), and this is decided to be removed when the Webalizer Statistics come back (do something about it). We changed a GPL script to remove all IP logging and other privacy issues and to keep only

page count, only when a page is read (/wiki/Page)
referers and search engine keywords

see Changes. Several Wikipedians/Admins that work on bg.wiki since 2003 have contributed to the script and have full access to the external server. Our script source code and the counter database can be downloaded and checked for errors or privacy issues: source code (64K), database tables (710K). The actual statistics in English can be checked out here. If you don't trust our hosting provider, well, it is Free.fr, the same as for some of the Wikipedia French Squids that you obviously trust. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them. --5ko | Беседа 10:55, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

It's an unacceptable risk to user privacy to put web bugs on every page which send a request to an external server. If necessary, I'll lock the interface on bg or install a restrictive HTML filter. I'd also be happy to desysop anyone who tries to insert such scripts. Note that your statistics won't be accurate anyway, they will miss the 75% of page views which are handled by the squid. -- Tim Starling 16:27, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

I've posted to wikipedia-l about this: [1]. -- Tim Starling 16:40, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

Okay. --5ko | Беседа 16:47, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

I can understand that losing the Webalizer stats is annoying, but bringing them back isn't going to be useful due to the caching that now takes place. They would be so inaccurate as to render them useless, so it is no longer an issue of simply not having enough servers to run them, but the issue of not having an alternative method of gathering this data. Also, due to the free licensing and quality of the content, Wikipedia is widely mirrored on other sites (I'm not sure if Bulgarian is yet), and also distributed offline, so the number of people reading the content is far higher than the number of people visiting Wikipedia itself.

I would like to suggest that rather than focusing on page hits, which we can no longer measure properly, you look at Erik Zachte's Wikistats. These contain detailed information on the number of articles and number of new and active users. Hopefully, you will find that this sort of data is more useful than hits, since it reflects a growing knowledge base and a growing community, which are more the focus here than simply the number of visitors. Angela 17:46, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

Angela, it would be great to bring back Webalizer even if the content is also elsewhere. Here is a resumé of our discussion. I can assure you that all this was done perfectly honestly and transparently, both the community consensus and decision, and the script code that we used and the complete statistics database.

We are a very small Wikipedia: currently less than 10 wikipedians do more than 95% of the edits and we vitally need more new and active wikipedians. We wish to quickly find out when an external website, newspaper/magazine, school, blog or forum links to our pages, because people frequently ask questions on the site, instead to us here, and we often need to answer and to try to bring more editors to Wikipedia. The Webalizer stats will make this possible again.
Otherwise, we wondered which pages are most often read and search engine keywords, so as that we could prioritarily improve them and the related links and themes. The monthly Webalizer stats also help, as the requests depend on some holidays and historical anniversaries.
Reactivating the stats on a small Wiki will probably not put too much extra load on the servers, so, if there is a way to have it back, we will be very happy.

Sorry for this misunderstanding, on behalf of bg.wiki community. --5ko | Беседа 18:16, 28 май 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

Sorry for my delayed reply on this. I have been trying to find out whether bringing back Webalizer for the smaller language Wikipedias would be possible. Although Mark said there is a problem with squid log file formats, and with and with storing and merging them, Kate has pointed out that Webalizer can read squid logs, which should contain most, if not all, of what you actually want. Kate is going to "look at hacking something up at some point", so it is possible some stats will be available here again in future. I'm sorry for the inconvenience of not having them right away, but we do need to take into account the security problems of allowing arbitrary JavaScript on the site. Angela

Hello, Angela! We could propose you to host our GPL script, although it is not quite finised yet and the code is very ugly because we adapted it a lot and we wanted to make more improvements (cleaning and template). It does really no harm neither logs any privacy information, and is adapted for our wiki (and probably other with the Cyrillic alphabet) and is faster, gives realtime statistics. The JavaScript only separates visitors from logged-in users because visitors are more important than ourselves. So, if you think this should be easier or better than the Webalizer, please tell me so that I could prepare it for an easier installation. --5ko 06:55, 21 юни 2005 (UTC)[отговор]

Please see the new webalizer stats set up by Kate today. [2] gives full details of page hits for this wiki. The stats only begun an hour ago, which is why the numbers look low right now. I hope this resolves the issue with the JavaScript being removed. Angela 4 юли 2005 14:32 (UTC)